Commercial Fire tapped out at 0200. Size up light smoke showing from all sides of a 100 by 50 strip mall. No obvious signs of which unit is involved from the front. Your the first in company. And you have your normal Commercial package enroute, with your next unit 2 minutes out. Upon 360 you find this door mid structure on side C.



Describe your actions for the next 5 minutes.

_________________
Ryan Cox
Lacey Fire District #3
31-B

I'd like to give her a shot, but first, do you mean tapped out 0200 or toned out at 0200? It would make a huge difference in my tactics

_________________
Bryan Martin
THE 16 TRUCK

"Let no man's ghost return to say his training let him down"

"This must be the place!"

Tones at 0200 hrs. And you're on the first in engine.

_________________
Ryan Cox
Lacey Fire District #3
31-B

Ok. I'll bite. During the 360 I notice this door. With no visible signs from the front as to fire location I have to assume that this fire is located in the rear of the structure close to this door or compartmentalized by another door. ie. storage room etc. Looking at this door and the heat signatures on it it looks to be heavily barricaded from the inside. The burn spots on the door look like heat transfer from thru bolts or the like. Also, this door appears to have been forced before or at least attempted by the damage to the jamb.

I would try to access the front of this unit to get to the seat and perform primary search enroute while crews attempt to force the rear door and push the fire out the back. second due would take exposures on side b and d. If the rear cant be opened we go to the roof to vent and either extinguish or contain to the rear of the structure.

This door would not be my primary entrance.

_________________
Jared Larna
Hailey Fire Department
3 Squad
SAWTOOTH F.O.O.L.S.

Who would you rather have watching over you, a guy who lives this business or someone who reads about it???
SKFR- BC Kahler

Second look at the door shows fairly quick acces by either cutting the hinges or popping the hinge pins which could change my tactics entirely.

What do ya got for us Cox??

_________________
Jared Larna
Hailey Fire Department
3 Squad
SAWTOOTH F.O.O.L.S.

Who would you rather have watching over you, a guy who lives this business or someone who reads about it???
SKFR- BC Kahler

1st Due Engine reverse out a 2.5" and manifold for additional lines. Stand fast on side Alpha. Transmit signal 2-11.

1st Due Truck:
Irons Man force entry on all (2-4 units) alpha side doors and stand by with a 10' hook to vent the windows and check the overhead.
OVM (Tillerman) rolls around back throws a 24' and sees that door. Report, force, soften the rest of side Charlie.
Roof (Driver) and Officer ladder roof, check fascia, check construction, check cockloft, vent roof.

2nd due Engine revers out to another plug, assist with fire attack.

3rd due Engine, 2.5" back up line if interior attack or into an exposure unit if exterior knock down required.

2nd due Truck, reinforce the roof (and remove it)

4th Due Engine, 2.5" to exposure unit.

5th Due Engine, Reverse out to plug, RIT or exposure line to other unit.

RIG (3rd Truck and 6th Engine) Move dumpsters, Soften everything, ladder B/D sides, control utilities, reconfirm basement

2-11 companies (4 Eng, 2 Lad): Stage, assign Trucks to open up exposure units, assign Engines to relieve on hose lines. Expect to reduce to 1.75" for overhaul.

_________________
Tommy
4 Truck

Risk aversion is a direct by-product of not understanding what's going on around you.
- Pete Blaber, Delta Force

http://www.youtube.com/hoflanr

I’ll play this out as first in on an engine.

Background: Our department responds with 3-man companies, with an occasional 4-man company. Additionally, A72 (housed with L72) responds on all fires with L72 as part of their staffing. They are the inside team for L72. The assignment for a commercial fire in SCFD7 is: 3 - Engines, 1 - Ladder (plus A72), 1 - Medic Units, 2 - Chiefs. It’s department procedure for the BC’s to request a 2nd ladder if the call sounds like it could be a real job or if the first unit indicates that it is on their arrival. The 2nd ladder should be requested before the 2nd alarm.

As the first arriving engine, I’d give an brief size-up as, “smoke showing from a one-story commercial building - strip mall, performing walk / drive around, update to follow.”

This would allow the BC to request our 2nd ladder...hopefully.

Establish command and request a 2nd alarm (2-11).

The door in the picture is indicating to me that the fire is most likely behind this door. It appears that the fire has died down, though, as there is white smoke coming from around the jamb.

Try to match this door up with a suite on the front side.

Anti-ventilate the building until my 2nd engine and 1st due ladder arrives.

Position my engine on the A-side near a water source. Firefighter stretches a 2-1/2” with smooth-bore as our initial attack line to the suite suspected to be on fire. They will also be responsible for any forcible entry issues on this suite. Have my driver secure the water supply to our engine...4” supply with a 3” secondary supply. I’ll start stretching a 1-3/4” line for exposure “B” or “D”, which ever is closest to our engine.

2nd due engine will lay-in with their own supply. Stretch an additional 1-3/4” line for the other exposure and staff it with their personnel. Forcible entry for their suite.

The two BC’s would assume command and establish a formal Safety Officer.

L72 and A72 will positioned at or near the rear of the building, thinking it’s easier to access the roof since there usually is no facia built on the backs of these buildings. L72 to the roof to prepare for ventilation operations. 35’ ladder to the roof. TIC, 2 - saws and 2 - hooks. Evaluate the roof, report findings back to command, cut inspection hole, and prepare for ventilation operations at or near the suspected unit on fire.

A72 to throw a second ladder (24’ ladder) and too soften the building on the C-side. Their tools would be: TIC, hook, circ-saw, Irons with K-tool. A72 will then move to the A-side to complete additional forcible entry needs and to support the attack company.

3rd due engine will staff the other exposure line and handle their own forcible entry issues.

The medic unit would assume the RIT duties, if one was thought to be needed. Most likely, we would not establish a RIT group if the attack company is on the fire quickly and appears to have the fire contained. This is not done because we like to take chances. It’s done simply because we don’t have the resources like Seattle or Bellevue to perform all the fireground functions needed for a commercial fire.

The 2nd due ladder would assist L72 with ventilation operations...especially if we are looking at conducting a defensive strip operation.

All 2nd alarm companies would park on the road and be used to rotate crews. The medic unit on the 2nd alarm would established Rehab if the 1st due medic unit is RIT.

Bring it Dante!!! I'd love a shot at this fire...even if I have to be on an engine to get it.

Great post Cox!!!

_________________
- Rev. Robbie Fisher

"Those without information in this business get themselves or others injured and killed. Modern firefighting is not a game for those who 'dabble' in the field." - Deputy Chief Anthony Avillo

Very cool. I love posting these first off because they promote thought. I purposely didn't specify the surrounding conditions and circumstances down to the nat's ass so that you could take liberty to make it whatever you think it would be. Secondly I learn a ton from these "mental simulations" and hope others do to. Here's some of my thoughts.

Size up

E-34 on scene, I've got light smoke showing from a medium strip mall, conducting 360 take this to 2 alarms.

360

Access is good to drive around structure, after spotting door in question count occupancies to closest reference wall. Conveniently there are hydrants all over. Doesn't appear to be fire above or below and appears seat of fire is close to side C.

Post 360 update

Building as described, E34 is preparing for offensive from side A. Fire unit appears to be the liquor store. E34 has command.

Crew instructions

Driver-water supply

FF- 2.5" to the front door, tools

Me- Good looks and machismo (hey its my fire back off)

Next in engine positions on side A and is assigned standby, now we're inside moving with purpose towards nirvana.

Next in units go like this (numbering is arrival order)

Engine 3-Exposure Bravo
Engine 4-Exposure Delta
Truck 1- Vent and force fire unit side c door not in that order


I initially thought, why not just pop the door in the rear and put this thing out. Well what about initial standby team? What about truck access? Fighting fire from opposing sides of the structure etc. etc. so I backed away from that.

Those are my initial thoughts. Any more players?

_________________
Ryan Cox
Lacey Fire District #3
31-B

Question to the members stretching a 2 1/2" handline for interior operations:

What is/are your plans for manpower to move the handline forward for an agressive interior attack? I will assume most Co.'s to be operating with 3 personnel. 1) OIC, 2) Chauffer-A/O-Technician-insert your title here 3) Lineman.
Using the ITAC model which if I remember right retains the first in OIC until another higher ranked Officer is *on scene* to pass command, that leaves the Lineman only to stretch and operate his line.

From what I see, all the other initial incoming Co.'s will be commited to other duties, i.e. exposures, additional lines.

With that said, would you consider stretching a line dry into the building if no conditions are present in the front and your overhead is clear?

The building is said to be a strip, with cinder block exterior walls seen. I'm going to say this will not have a substantial roof, which means
a) its probably bar trusses above
b) we must have a heavy priority on overhead conditions.
c) if we cannot realistically commit multiple personnel to the roof for agressive roof work, we must commit that much more personnel to the attack for agressive engine work.

_________________
"Stay low boys, keep those feet moving."

“We did our job, and that’s what we’re paid to do. There’s nothing more to say.’’
John Smith, Boston Fire Department

DTRT- KTF

Matty,

Great comments and questions.

SCFD7 is not using ITAC as a whole (thank God!). We speak it, as in how we assigned groups, divisions, command staff, geographical locations, etc. However, we don't function under the constraints of such a formal command structure.

Our (SCFD7) command structure was developed off The Module Procedures of Structural Firefighter. In this document, it identifies one of the command modes as "working command". So...in this scenario, the CO from the first arriving company must perform a size-up and establish command. If, in their opinion, they are needed to assist with initial operations (to stretch lines...throw a ladder, etc.), the CO will then be in the "working command" mode. It is assumed on most every fire response, where command is established, the CO is a "working command". However, if say the building is well involved and a more formal command needs to be established immediately, then the CO will announce the location of the command post in their update and will function as a formal command officer. In our department, when a formal location has been announced, we know the CO is not in "working command" mode. And, they are required to be at the command post, not working or assisting with the operations. We operate in this fashion primarily because of our staffing. I'm sure in larger departments, such as yours, this would not be the case.

As for your questions on the initial stretch...yes, we would stretch the line dry into the interior...conditions warranted, of course. I agree on the high priority of what you have going on overhead. A check should be down at the entrance with a hook and TIC, and as they move forward at intervals appropriate for the conditions. Most of the strip malls in our jurisdiction are not of steel-bar joist construction. I would be more concerned with interior operations if the roof was constructed of steel-bar joist...and even more concerned if the trusses were hung from "A" to "C" as opposed to "B" to "D" due to failure as result of being exposed to fire.

As for the staffing on the initial line...In my response, A72 would be there to assist the first line. As the Inside Team for L72, they are responsible for the primary search, then assisting with the attack team. On a commercial structure, depending on the time of day, a primary search should be fairly quick or limited due to extent of the fire. The companies stretching exposure lines to exposure B1 and D1 will be responsible for their own forcible entry issues and the primary search of their suites. A72 will increase the staffing on the 2-1/2" attack line from a FF and CO to 3 - FFs being supervised by a CO, which is the way it should be.

In my response, I have A72 throwing a 2nd ladder to the roof for our roof operations. This will be done with one firefighter while the other firefighter is forcing the rear door to the suite on fire. If A72 is needed for staffing on the 2-1/2" line immediately, then I would have them forgo assisting us and forcing the rear door. The 2nd due ladder can handle this on their arrival.

I agree with your comment about if we don't have the resources to effectively vertically ventilate the building, then we need to bolster our attack lines for a more aggressive defensive/transitional/interior operation.

_________________
- Rev. Robbie Fisher

"Those without information in this business get themselves or others injured and killed. Modern firefighting is not a game for those who 'dabble' in the field." - Deputy Chief Anthony Avillo