Looking to spark some conversation about a scenario that has been on my mind.
The scenario is you pull on scene of a residential structure fire and plan for an aggressive interior attack. As you do a walk around the homeowner comes up to you and says he stores ammunition in the house and keeps it in the area that the fire is in.
The questions:
Is the ammunition a hazard?
Will you change tactics?
At what quantity does ammunition becomes a hazard that would cause suppression tactics to change?
Do fireworks pose the same hazards and at what quantities?

Thanks in advance for any shared knowledge.

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Brendan Grace
SCFD7
You check the interior, I’ll check the outterior- RJ

Yes this is a hazard, and I'd say in any quantity. We actually had one of these years ago. Fire started in the garage and extended into the house. The ammo began to cook off and crews thought they were being shot at. SWAT had to be called before they figured out what was going on. Luckily is was a small quantity, so by the time they withdrew to go defensive, the shots had ceased and no one was injured.

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Bryan Martin
THE 16 TRUCK

"Let no man's ghost return to say his training let him down"

"This must be the place!"

From what I've read and with my personal experiences with firearms, I'd have to say that unless the round is chambered in a weapon it will not be a threat. A round in the open enviroment has nothing to concentrate the force of the explosion. I've heard from multiple sources that all you'll hear is a 'pop' of the primer. The shell and bullet just simply fall apart. I've been wrong before...so having no experience with this type of incident, I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong again.

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Nate Risen
'C' Shift Floater

I'm looking for more info about this subject and not having a lot of luck so far. As a reloader I have looked into what happens to the cartridge casing when there are head spacing issues...(minute spaces between the case and the chamber)...and it leads me to believe that the case will fail quickly and reliably when there is no chamber to support it's shape. I have heard that the primer is the weakest point of the cartridge and will blow out of the cartridge as soon as it ignites the powder, causing the powder to burn under less compression. I believe that they provide very little threat, but you can't go wrong if you trust your gut and find something to hide behind.

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Inspire others to be their best by being your best

I just love it when someone else does the research for us!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfoJAwlU ... re=related

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Inspire others to be their best by being your best

as far as i know yes, the bullets may "go off" but due the fact that they are not chambered, and lack the presence of a muzzle, there is not enough velocity to do any type of damage. which makes me wonder what would happen if a round in a loaded fire arm got hot enought to ignite? i am no scientist when it comes to this matter, i just know that a rifle cartridge placed in a vise, and hitting the primer with a slag hammer is not the smartest thing to do in the hi school metal shop.

I worry more about the metal cans of powder. I have been in a few fires where rounds were going off but never heard them hitting anything or found any holes in any of the walls.( providing they are still standing.)
Bull

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Always an adventure

good call bull. down here in chehalis, all the reloaders i know have an overwelming surplus of that stuff.

We had one of these situations in a garage fire not too long ago. Ammo cabinet in the corner of the garage right where the fire started. First crew went interior through the rollup door and attacked the fire. They heard the rounds "popping" off next to the seat of the fire.

Great thread! i was curious about this as well... at the time it didnt seem like they were projecting anywhere... Thanks for clearing that up!

In this book "Gunshot Wounds" Vincent Di Maio describes various experiments where ammunition was heated in ovens. He says that .22 long rifle cartridges detonate at an average of 275F, .38 Special at 290F and 12 gauge shotgun shells at 387F.The interesting thing about these furnace experiments was that in all instances the cartridge cases ruptured, but the primers did not detonate. In fact the primers were removed from some of the ruptured cases, reloaded into other brass and fired. Nonetheless, I would proceed with severe caution and stop watching western movies

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Darby "HOSS" Hepper
Engine Co. 71 "The BIG HOUSE"

Talking to RPD SWAT guy. He made a good point. Yes the round will cook-off and go bang, and it may startle you, but if there is no barrel to provide velocity and direction, it's harmless. Just a really fast powder burn.

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Bryan Martin
THE 16 TRUCK

"Let no man's ghost return to say his training let him down"

"This must be the place!"

There was a fire at one of the local cops house. He was a SWAT member and his patrol car was in the garage with his AR and a couple ammo cans of 223 rounds along with 9mm ammo from his sidearm. After the fire it was found that all rounds cooked off including the ones in the AR's magazines (there was not a round chamber) Not one round made it through the sheetmetal of the trunk even in its heated state.

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Jacob Poisson
PCFD 8